A constitution boat fisherman was among the many first to find the wreckage — a “mess,” he known as it, deep off the coast of Massachusetts. From behind a veil of pea soup-thick fog emerged a whole lot of white and inexperienced fiberglass and Styrofoam items, some as small as a fingernail, some as giant as a truck hood. By the next morning, the tide had carried the particles about 12 nautical miles and scattered it throughout Nantucket Island’s seashores. Residents woke to a shoreline lined in trash, fiberglass shards blended in with seaweed and shells, waves thrusting flotsam onto the sand.
It didn’t take lengthy to observe the breadcrumb path to its supply: Winery Wind, an offshore wind farm positioned south of Martha’s Winery and Nantucket. On Saturday, July thirteenth, 2024, a virtually 115,000-pound blade broke from one of many generators, shattered, and littered not less than six truckloads’ value of waste into the ocean.
The stakes for renewable vitality advocates couldn’t have been larger. Scientists, environmental teams, offshore wind builders, traders, and stakeholders from internationally had all been intently monitoring Winery Wind, which, with a deliberate 62 generators, was on observe to be the primary large-scale industrial offshore wind farm in the USA. Dozens of different initiatives with contracts pending development had hoped to glean perception from Winery Wind as a number one instance. A catastrophe like this may put the nascent offshore wind trade below intense scrutiny and had the potential to throw future initiatives into jeopardy.
For Nantucketers, the timing of the break was devastating. Not solely is mid-July peak tourism season on the island, that exact week was one of many hottest in recorded historical past. Because the solar scorched Nantucket’s amber sands, fiberglass washed ashore, rendering the island’s southern seashores unsafe to be used.
The harbormaster deployed lifeguards, most of whom are of their late teenagers and early twenties, to clear the refuse. They donned latex gloves and pink uniform swimsuits to haul giant fiberglass segments onto ATVs. Winery Wind despatched its personal crew for seaside cleanup, and warned neighborhood members to not decide up the particles themselves. Locals ignored the recommendation. These have been their seashores, in any case, and the litter was overwhelming. Inside days, a few younger males had capitalized on the mounting frustration by promoting T-shirts that learn “Winery Wind is ISIS” in town docks.
Nantucket’s Choose Board, the island’s major governing physique, known as an emergency assembly with Winery Wind’s CEO Klaus Møller. The general public was invited to a brown convention room positioned contained in the police division, with the Choose Board seated at a V-shaped desk on the entrance. Møller arrived in a free blazer, rectangular eyeglasses, and a white costume shirt. He’s initially from Denmark; Winery Wind is owned by Copenhagen Infrastructure Companions and Avangrid Renewables, a US subsidiary of the Spanish electrical utility firm Iberdrola. Danish accent apart, Møller resembled most of the native folks sitting within the viewers: white, scruffy beard, crew lower, middle-aged.
These similarities didn’t assist him, nevertheless. Whereas Møller expressed that Winery Wind was taking the difficulty critically, it was clear he wished to deescalate the neighborhood’s considerations. He described the blade particles as unhazardous, a characterization that unnerved the viewers. Individuals interrupted him in protest, some coughing loudly. Islanders wished to know: If the fabric was unhazardous, why didn’t they need us touching it? Did the blade include PFAS, the endlessly chemical compounds identified to trigger most cancers? What concerning the squid, oysters, scallops, and mussels sucking up fiberglass shards within the ocean? A surf teacher misplaced every week of labor through the busiest month of the 12 months, when he, like most Nantucketers, earns a big portion of his annual revenue. Would he be compensated? At one level, a lobsterman sporting a Trump T-shirt approached Møller and accused him of not paying consideration throughout viewers questions. He was instructed to return to his seat.
Roger Martella, the chief company officer of GE Vernova — the subsidiary of Normal Electrical that manufactures the generators for Winery Wind — joined the assembly by Zoom from Cape Cod. Previous to becoming a member of GE, Martella was beforehand common counsel for the US Environmental Safety Company (EPA). He and a technical knowledgeable defined that the turbine blades are made out of the identical materials as boats: fiberglass, Styrofoam, balsa wooden, and a binding agent. He reiterated Møller’s level that they have been taking the difficulty critically and stated GE Vernova feels Nantucket is their “yard,” since they’re headquartered in Cambridge. Martella repeated a number of occasions that the corporate would conduct a root-cause evaluation to research what went fallacious with the blade.
Throughout an earnings name a few weeks later, in late July, GE Vernova’s CEO reported the break was attributable to a producing error and high quality assurance processes had failed. Particularly, adhesives hadn’t been utilized correctly. Inside months of the Winery Wind blade break, two different GE Vernova Haliade-X blades failed on the Dogger Financial institution wind farm between the UK and Denmark. These incidents have been unrelated to the manufacturing difficulty discovered within the Winery Wind blade. The primary Dogger Financial institution blade failed in Could, two months prior, due to an set up difficulty. The second failed a month later, in August, as a result of it had remained stagnant previous to operation, making it susceptible to robust winds and climate.
The truth that every break had been attributable to separate components and never one remoted difficulty indicated a a lot bigger downside for GE. However the clarification stirred much more anxiousness amongst Nantucketers. Any belief the neighborhood had in Winery Wind and GE Vernova had been fractured, and their religion in offshore wind as an trade was starting to crumble with it — the science, the economics, the honesty of its executives. Doubts multiplied by the day. Some questioned the way it was attainable that the corporate had three separate blade failures that weren’t one way or the other related. They questioned if GE Vernova was concealing operational points that led to the accidents. Might a deeper conspiracy be afoot?
GE Vernova’s Haliade-X is among the many largest and most powerful wind turbine blades on the planet. A single operational turbine outfitted with Haliade-X blades and rotor can save as much as 52,000 metric tons of CO2 a 12 months, the equal of saving emissions from about 11,000 autos yearly. One spin of this towering whirligig produces sufficient electrical energy to energy a mean family for 2 days.
Although wind is among the most cost-effective vitality sources — together with photo voltaic — it has traditionally been unpredictable, as fickle because the breeze itself. To beat the difficulty of calm climate days, GE spent a whole lot of hundreds of thousands of {dollars} to be first to market with a blade that might generate extra vitality with fewer rotations.
For GE to realize this, they have been going to wish a much bigger blade. One Haliade-X is concerning the size of a soccer subject. From ocean floor to blade tip, a Winery Wind turbine stands roughly 850 toes tall. By comparability, the Empire State Constructing is just a pair hundred toes taller. The blades are manufactured one half at a time length-wise: manufacturing facility employees layer a composite of fiberglass and balsa wooden inside a mildew, vacuum seal the air out, then inject the mildew with a resin to fuse the composite collectively. The 2 halves are then joined, sanded, buffed, and shipped out by freight boat to their wind farm vacation spot.
The method for creating, testing, and commercializing the Haliade-X was astonishingly quick, particularly contemplating its scale and complexity (although not compared to Chinese language rivals, that are dominating the market). In 2019, GE Vernova accomplished a 12-megawatt prototype of the Haliade-X for testing. By 2023, it had acquired a full sort certification for 12-, 13-, and 14.7-megawatt fashions, and the 13-megawatt blades have been prepared for industrial use in Winery Wind and Dogger Financial institution. One Haliade-X-equipped turbine generates practically 30 occasions extra electrical energy than the primary offshore wind turbine put in off the coast of Denmark in 1991.
GE boasted that one turbine may produce as a lot thrust as a Boeing 747 jet — which, given Boeing’s personal latest manufacturing disasters, could have been a prophetic comparability. In September 2024, GE Vernova announced it could be shedding 900 offshore wind staff — partly as a result of accidents — to create “a smaller, leaner and extra worthwhile enterprise.”
The Bureau of Security and Environmental Enforcement (BSEE) shut down energy provide from the wind farm to the grid and halted development. Winery Wind would wish to submit a revised development and operations plan to restart the undertaking. In the meantime, GE Vernova would clear the remaining blade particles and analyze the environmental impression of the break. They used “crawler” drones to examine every blade and took over 8,000 ultrasounds to evaluate the remaining blades’ security and operational readiness.
On December fifth, 2024, Winery Wind submitted the revised plan to take away Haliade-X blades from 22 wind generators. BSEE accepted the plan a couple of month and a half later, in January 2025, and the undertaking resumed.
Nantucket’s local people, nevertheless, was not glad to maneuver on as shortly. Many felt disregarded within the rush to return to undertaking timelines, left to select up the items after already doing so fairly actually. With the Haliade-X blade, Winery Wind promised to generate sufficient electrical energy to provide 400,000 houses and companies within the better commonwealth of Massachusetts. Nevertheless, because the cable traces feed to New England grid on the mainland, it was not clear how a lot of that vitality would immediately contribute to Nantucket houses, or how a lot cash could be saved from locals’ pockets after Winery Wind turned a revenue. (Local weather organizers in other states are preventing for publicly owned renewables for this very motive.)
Like many cities throughout the US, the Nantucket neighborhood faces an unprecedented affordability and housing crisis. A lot of the island’s year-round residents earn a residing within the trades by land or by sea; they don’t match the Nantucket stereotype of wealthy vacationers who jet in for uncooked bar in lobster shorts and flee for the winter. There may be an ever-growing and vulnerable immigrant inhabitants on the island. (My very own Brazilian mom labored as a chef within the eating places after I was rising up there.) It’s not unusual for residents to create makeshift homes out of sheds or outdated transport containers or to stay out of their automobiles, whereas rich summer time residents actively fight the development of reasonably priced housing. Islanders felt they have been owed greater than the promise of trickle-down advantages, particularly contemplating different Massachusetts residents weren’t coping with blade fragments within the sands the place their youngsters and pets play.
On the similar time, because the local weather disaster intensifies, Nantucket is in dire want of a world various to fossil fuels. In June 2025, the city enacted a compulsory water use restriction in response to extreme drought situations. Storm surges are solely worsening, and homes fall into the ocean due to the speedy fee of abrasion attributable to sea-level rise. The overwhelming majority of the scientific neighborhood agrees that wind vitality, together with offshore wind, is important to the substitute of fossil fuels, that are the main contributor of greenhouse gasoline emissions. Whereas an array of renewable vitality sources might be wanted to exchange oil and gasoline, the Nantucket area is especially suited to offshore wind — versus, say, nuclear vitality or onshore wind — as a result of there’s a variety of surrounding water house and a variety of wind.
After a catastrophe just like the blade break, nevertheless, in need of abandoning the undertaking totally, it appeared there was little the executives may have stated or finished to persuade the neighborhood that Winery Wind wished to do proper by them. Many have been questioning to various levels whether or not the environmental prices of offshore wind vitality really outweighed the advantages. Nantucket is a spot the place folks are likely to favor options that fight local weather change. And but, that they had shortly remodeled into one in every of Winery Wind’s loudest adversaries.
Of essentially the most vocal critics, one small, 501(c)(3) nonprofit group had been emphatically in opposition to Winery Wind lengthy earlier than the blade failure. ACK for Whales, headed by a handful of white-presenting ladies of their 50s and 60s, had been proclaiming for years — via op-eds, tv appearances, podcast interviews, social media posts, public remark at city conferences, native occasions, and mailers — that offshore wind was a detriment to the endangered North Atlantic proper whale, which migrates alongside the Japanese Seaboard. They weren’t the one ones: there was additionally Inexperienced Oceans in Rhode Island, Save Proper Whales coalition, Defend Our Coast NJ. The listing went on. Nonprofit teams up and down the East Coast have been decided to cease the Winery Wind improvement and all different offshore wind initiatives going ahead.
Vallorie Oliver, a neighborhood Nantucketer and residential designer who co-founded ACK for Whales in 2019, even known as the blade break a “blessing” as a result of it uncovered to the general public how horrible offshore wind was for the atmosphere. In response to ACK for Whales (ACK is the airport code for Nantucket), all the things from the sonar used to survey the ocean ground, to the manufacturing of the generators, the pile driving throughout development, and the vibrations throughout operation would trigger irreversible harm and dying to the North Atlantic proper whale. The inhabitants of roughly 360 whales has been dealing with an “Unusual Mortality Event” since 2017.
ACK for Whales’ factors made intuitive sense, in a manner. It appeared believable that one of many world’s largest offshore wind generators, which was primarily an enormous machine, would impression the marine life round it. After the blade break, I seen that the group’s message was spreading throughout Nantucket. With ACK for Whales’ encouragement, two folks I grew up with even determined to begin their very own 501(c)(3) nonprofit coalition of native island companies geared toward stopping offshore wind. They launched the group through an Instagram Reel with a voiceover that warned of “misinformation,” “secrecy,” and “company greed” revolving round offshore wind developments.
“Earlier than the blade break, I used to be seeing a couple of 50-50 cut up,” defined Blair Perkins, an island resident who is among the solely few nonetheless outwardly supportive of the wind farm within the wake of the break. “When that accident occurred, it went to extra like 75 [percent] in opposition to or not less than not sure.”
A couple of months in the past, Perkins, who’s in his 60s, posted {a photograph} to a Fb group for year-round Nantucket residents of tangled fishing gear he collected on the seaside. The web page had turn out to be a hotbed of dispute concerning the wind farm, with supporters of ACK for Whales usually main the cost. He argued in his submit that the turbine blade failure had been a uncommon occasion, whereas fishing gear detritus is a every day downside on Nantucket’s seashores. The outdated PSAs about plastic rubbish choking sea turtles weren’t an exaggeration: a whole lot of 1000’s of marine mammals and sea turtles die from entanglement in fishing gear a 12 months. Together with vessel strikes, they’re two of the main causes of dying for marine animals. His level was: if teams like ACK for Whales have been involved concerning the whales, then why weren’t they preventing to restrict boat speeds or fishing gear particles?
After I met Perkins and his spouse Rain Harbison, they have been trying to find injured seals on the island’s northern tip. Perkins is tall with a young face and blue eyes. Harbison wears her hair in two lengthy braids that relaxation over her shoulders. The duo patrols the seaside in Perkins’ F-150 truck every single day, for hours, in pursuit of flailing wildlife as a part of their animal rescue group. For about 25 years, Perkins ran an eco-tour enterprise to show vacationers concerning the island’s pure historical past. Now he earns a residing within the trades and, for half the 12 months, he and Harbison stay on a houseboat moored within the harbor.
Perkins believes the wind farm will truly assist save marine ecosystems by limiting vessel site visitors and draggers, the industrial fishing nets used to catch deep-sea fish that harm coral reefs and sea sponge beds. He stated the generators might be a secure haven for marine life — each within the brief time period, due to fewer boats, rubbish, and fishing gear, and in the long run, because of the lowered carbon emissions.
Some studies do present that the generators’ underwater columns and cable traces create what is named an “synthetic reef impact,” selling the expansion of sponge, hydroid, and crustacean colonies, which might result in a rise in different marine life that feed on these colonies. Most research acknowledge, nevertheless, that extra analysis is required earlier than definitive conclusions will be drawn. After all, that doesn’t imply Perkins’ hypotheses are incorrect. Science is a dependable subject due to the sluggish, meticulous course of by which scientists construct data. Trendy offshore wind generators merely haven’t been round lengthy sufficient to make scientific claims about their cumulative, lasting results on marine ecosystems (although the impacts don’t look like disproportionately giant in comparison with onshore wind vitality).
Winery Wind’s allowing course of was its personal extended scientific endeavor. The pre-construction section lasted over a decade and included — amongst different federal, state, and native necessities — a virtually 500-page biological opinion that researched each species of concern within the space, even naming individual whales that is likely to be impacted by the generators, in addition to an ongoing environmental impact statement. The Winery Wind workforce used these analyses to find out the perfect development timeline and site of the construct to mitigate results as a lot as attainable.
The particular report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Local weather Change — which is taken into account a gold commonplace of scientific literature — does state definitively that wind vitality, together with offshore wind, is important to the substitute of fossil fuels for the well being of our planet, even when accounting for the potential impacts of development, operation, upkeep, and decommissioning of wind farms. The scientific neighborhood is in settlement that offshore wind is a essential and worthwhile pursuit. However after I seemed for an ideal sentence that may dispel any doubt for a layperson — one which didn’t have qualifiers about needing extra time and analysis — I couldn’t discover one. Scientists, by nature, are hesitant to make full-throated claims, particularly about rising fields. It should seemingly take a few years earlier than such a sentence from the scientific neighborhood exists, if it ever does.
ACK for Whales didn’t intend to attend. They have been assured of their evaluation that offshore wind farms are a menace to the atmosphere. When the Nationwide Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) proposed a regulation to restrict the pace of vessels touring in Nantucket Sound for the express security of the endangered North Atlantic proper whale, ACK board member Amy DiSibio wrote an op-ed lambasting the regulation. She known as NOAA “disingenuous” and stated the proposal was an “offensive endeavor to feign concern for the [North Atlantic right whale].” (The Trump administration’s 2026 price range proposal intends to cut $1.7 billion from NOAA, which is taken into account one of many high analysis businesses on the planet.) ACK for Whales was bored with options that addressed whale deaths associated to vessel strikes, fishing gear entanglement, or local weather change as a result of they believed these causes have been a distraction from the actual offender: the offshore wind trade.
Opposition to offshore wind has been constructing momentum on the island because the Cape Wind undertaking in 2001, a proposed wind farm in Nantucket Sound supposed to be the primary in the USA. William “Invoice” Koch — whose notorious billionaire household made a fortune from fossil fuels — didn’t cover the truth that he would have a direct view of the wind farm from his compound in Osterville. Using the nonprofit he chaired, Alliance to Defend Nantucket Sound, he dedicated to spending as a lot because it took in lawsuits to delay the undertaking into oblivion.
The technique labored. After a 12-year legal battle and a whole lot of hundreds of thousands of {dollars}, the Cape Wind undertaking by no means received off the bottom. Within the prevailing years, the Koch household has continued their campaign in opposition to offshore wind vitality. Koch household foundations and different conservative energy gamers have poured billions of {dollars} into constructing an unlimited and sophisticated community of organizations which are dedicated to obstructing sustainable vitality initiatives.
Gone are the times of a Cape Wind-style takedown, when the ability dynamic between fossil gasoline billionaire and offshore wind opposition was direct and apparent. Right now it’s rather more slippery. Anti-offshore-wind methods have turn out to be uniquely localized and contain a collective effort from a wide variety of actors. Funding and help for these teams is tangled inside 501(c)(3) nonprofits (which aren’t required to reveal their donation sources), assume tanks, foundations, people, particular curiosity teams, and coalitions. Small nonprofits working inside this community can’t be neatly described as “astroturfed,” since they could in a roundabout way settle for cash from a politically motivated supply, permitting them to undertaking a grassroots fame.
Disinformation, or deceptive data, is maybe much more useful than precise {dollars} to those organizations’ capacity to sow discord. With the aid of highly effective lobbyists and assume tanks, native anti-offshore-wind teams discover difficult methods to erode belief in scientific analysis and contradict efficient options to the local weather disaster. They commerce textbook argumentation strategies to delay or deny local weather motion, comparable to cherry-picking knowledge, deploying false consultants, logical fallacies, pink herrings, and conspiracy theories. It’s unlikely that each offshore wind opponent or skeptic — comparable to a fisherman or involved citizen — realizes that the speaking factors they could amplify on Fb have been most likely formulated by a right-wing guide. The hyperlink between the fossil gasoline trade and offshore wind opposition is even thornier to parse when local weather denialism takes the form of a healthful environmental trigger, like saving the whales.
In late January 2024, months earlier than the blade failure, North Atlantic proper whale #5120 was found lifeless on the neighboring island of Martha’s Winery. A passerby took a video of the beached whale and posted it on Instagram with the caption, “I noticed with my very own eyes. Zero proof of entanglement wherever on her,” and blamed Winery Wind for the whale’s dying. ACK for Whales posted concerning the whale fatality on their Fb web page, the place members incessantly declare whales have died due to offshore wind, even though this theory has been debunked by consultants. Even President Donald Trump has weighed in on the whale dying conspiracy theory. He signed an govt order ending new offshore wind leases on the primary day of his second time period and, more recently, the Inside Division added important layers of political evaluation to the allowing course of for current leases. (In 2011, Trump misplaced a courtroom case to cease an offshore wind farm from being erected close to a golf course he owns in Scotland and has known as them “ugly monsters.”)
“You see what’s taking place within the Massachusetts space with the whales [dying],” he stated on the marketing campaign path. “The wind mills are driving the whales loopy.” He instructed the podcaster Joe Rogan he wished to turn out to be a whale psychiatrist.
A subsequent investigation involving a number of businesses and groups of scientists discovered that deep wounds from fishing gear entanglement killed proper whale #5120. In truth, the whale had been entangled since 2021, when it was one 12 months outdated. Because the whale grew, the gear tightened and embedded round its tail.
By the point the investigation concluded, nevertheless, the unique false declare had grown legs and unfold throughout the web. The vast majority of commenters on NOAA’s Fb posts concerning the investigation claimed scientists had planted the rope or falsified the report. Nantucket’s hottest information outlet, Nantucket Present (“the Present”), included in its reporting the passerby’s conspiracy concept as a counterpoint to the scientific findings. When requested about why he had revealed the false declare, Present editor-in-chief Jason Graziadei , instructed The Provincetown Impartial, “…she and others on [Martha’s] Winery questioned the official account that was being supplied by authorities, so we wished to know extra about what she stated she noticed.”
Graziadei and I labored collectively within the early aughts at Nantucket’s weekly print newspaper, The Inquirer and Mirror (“the Inky”), again once we thought the largest menace to journalism was internet blogs. Graziadei was the lead information reporter on employees; he had a knack for growing sources in the neighborhood and recurrently reported on entrance web page tales. Twenty years later, in 2021, N Journal — a shiny life-style journal based mostly on Nantucket — approached him to begin a information outlet. The unique thought was that the Present could be a web based e-newsletter, however Graziadei quickly noticed the potential for a social-media-driven information supply. With out the manufacturing constraints of print information, he was in a position to scoop tales quicker than the Inky ever may. The Present felt edgy and thrilling, particularly in its early days. Graziadei didn’t draw back from utilizing cheeky humor or posting extra provocative content material, like livestreaming automobile accidents and home fires from its Instagram tales. The Present shortly grew to become the ever-present manner residents and non-residents received their Nantucket-related information. It now has 156,000 followers on Instagram and over 20,0000 followers on TikTok — numbers that far exceed the year-round inhabitants of round 15,000.
Graziadei is, in some ways, an unlikely reporter-cum-social media influencer. His face is nowhere to be discovered on the Present’s socials. He doesn’t weigh in on arguments within the feedback, although he does strive to answer each direct message.
“It’s been very intense,” he stated of the Winery Wind story. The Present broke information of the blade failure by reposting photographs that residents took of the particles washing ashore. “Individuals cease me on the street or the grocery store. All the things may be very closely scrutinized via a political lens. All the things that’s written, each photograph that’s revealed.”
Quickly after the break, a constitution boat captain despatched Graziadei an unsolicited private narrative he’d written about discovering the particles within the ocean, earlier than it had reached the island’s shores. Graziadei discovered the story gripping and determined to publish it on the Present’s e-newsletter.
“It received a variety of hits, nevertheless it wasn’t large,” he stated. “So I believed, ‘We’ve got to determine a technique to package deal this and get it out wider.’”
He created an Instagram Reel from up-close footage of the break, mixed it with the constitution boat captain’s piece, and set the reel to Hans Zimmer’s foreboding Dune rating. The post has garnered 3.6 million views.
“I’m nonetheless getting notifications about folks studying it six or seven months later.”
Given Graziadei’s conventional information background (he went to highschool for journalism), I wished to know if he felt an inherent rigidity in operating an unbiased outlet on social media, an area that’s designed for sensationalist headlines to feed the algorithm. Controversy across the Winery Wind undertaking, specifically, had clearly elevated site visitors to the Present’s accounts. How may he guarantee he wasn’t falling sufferer to the algorithm’s embrace of concern content material?
Graziadei stated that he follows the identical reporting ethics he discovered in class, properly earlier than Fb and Instagram existed: a reporter is a impartial arbiter and the story ought to converse for itself.
“A few of the extra form of salacious stuff does, simply by nature of social media, get extra engagement,” he admitted. “In case you lean into it in a manner that’s accountable and respectful and nonetheless based mostly in good journalism, then we’re going to go there… Now that we’ve a much bigger viewers, [the] actually vital tales can even attain extra folks.”
On the emergency Choose Board assembly, Graziadei was within the viewers sporting a Nantucket Present ball cap when his boss, the proprietor of N Journal, Bruce Percelay, approached the microphone for public remark. If Graziadei claimed a impartial stance, Percelay, who’s an actual property developer, actually didn’t. He likened the blade failure to the Exxon Valdez oil spill within the Gulf of Alaska — one of many biggest environmental disasters of our time — and wished to know if the city could be pursuing prison costs in opposition to Winery Wind.
“The long-term implications for Nantucket when it comes to the desirability of this place as a vacationer vacation spot… they might be completely monumental,” Percelay stated.
He went on to clarify how Amy DiSibio from ACK for Whales and N Journal have been writing articles concerning the risks of offshore wind for years. “Amy’s analysis has confirmed past a shadow of a doubt that the liabilities exceed the advantages of this undertaking,” he stated. “It’s time for Winery Wind and GE to take a tough look to see whether or not this concept is basically flawed and must be terminated.”
This was not the primary time Percelay’s opinion on environmental issues had been on show. In 2023, he was at a fundraiser on Nantucket for Governor Maura Healey when a gaggle of local weather activists interrupted the occasion to demand that Healey ban new fossil gasoline infrastructure initiatives in Massachusetts. Percelay was filmed strolling down the driveway whereas arguing with a 20-year-old protester. The protester instructed him her era was going to die due to the results of local weather change.
“I don’t thoughts for those who die,” Percelay instructed the protester whereas strolling away.
Primarily based on Percelay’s description of DiSibio’s analysis, I assumed she was a scientist. However she shouldn’t be. DiSibio is a former Wall Avenue dealer. Her husband, Carmine, was the worldwide chairman and CEO of EY (previously Ernst & Younger) till 2024. Along with King Charles III, he co-founded Sustainable Markets Initiative, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that seeks to combine the personal sector, folks, revenue, and the planet by using “personal sector diplomacy,” and features a sustainability initiative in house. The DiSibios personal a seasonal residence close to Nantucket’s South Shore, the place the particles washed up, and the place a faint silhouette of the wind farm is seen on the horizon.
DiSibio appeared reluctant at first to speak to me about her background on Wall Avenue, which she left years in the past, and wished me to know she has been concerned in charitable work in her native New Jersey neighborhood. However she added that Wall Avenue gave her sure useful abilities, like methods to deal with tough environments. As an assistant beginning out, she had to purchase cigars and cigarettes for the merchants on her desk; her blouses needed to be dry cleaned every day to eliminate the stench.
DiSibio received concerned with ACK for Whales when she contacted Vallorie Oliver after studying about an offshore wind improvement off the coast of Montauk, which led her to Winery Wind. After I requested her how she developed a ardour for the North Atlantic proper whale, she talked extra usually concerning the significance of whales to the Nantucket neighborhood.
“Even the native highschool’s mascot is the Whalers,” she identified about my alma mater, an incongruous instance, contemplating the mascot is a reference to the nineteenth century whaling trade that hunted North Atlantic proper whales to the brink of extinction. (In 2013, college students named the highschool mascot “Hank the Harpoon Man.”)
All through our name, DiSibio expressed a deep-rooted distrust in scientific establishments that help offshore wind. She described with urgency how “mind explosions” have occurred in North Atlantic proper whales from the sonar used to survey websites for offshore wind developments; nevertheless, she stated scientists aren’t keen to review whale conduct or go deep sufficient in a lifeless whale’s mind to see the combustion.
For instance her concept about how sonar kills whales, DiSibio instructed me a narrative a couple of canine she as soon as had that received scared from the sound of fireworks, bumped into the road, and was hit by a automobile. After I expressed my condolences, she stated the occasion was traumatizing and that she now not likes the Fourth of July. (Later, I found DiSibio instructed an analogous story throughout an interview on Fox Enterprise and once more on ACK for Whales’ podcast, however in these tellings it was a hypothetical canine, not her personal.)
Earlier than DiSibio joined ACK for Whales, the group was known as Nantucket Residents Towards Generators, or ACK RAT for brief. In August 2021, cofounders Oliver and Mary Chalke held a press convention for ACK RAT in entrance of the Massachusetts state capitol constructing alongside a person named David Stevenson. Stevenson is a former member of the Trump administration’s EPA transition workforce and a director on the Caesar Rodney Institute, a assume tank funded by the fossil gasoline trade. He has helped drive authorized challenges in opposition to offshore wind in native communities throughout the East Coast.
Stevenson, Oliver, and Chalke introduced that ACK RAT had filed a lawsuit in opposition to the Bureau of Ocean Power Administration (BOEM), the federal company that leases the water house to Winery Wind, alleging that they had violated the Endangered Species Act and the Nationwide Environmental Coverage Act by allowing the undertaking. They’d be forming a brand new group collectively known as the American Coalition for Ocean Safety (ACOP). ACOP aligns conservative assume tanks with local people teams towards the frequent objective of ending offshore wind initiatives, and features a limited-use fund known as the Ocean Setting Authorized Protection Fund. Stevenson could be the president of ACOP and ACK RAT could be a founding member group, together with 5 assume tanks — together with the Caesar Rodney Institute — which are a part of the State Policy Network, a 50-state group of Koch-affiliated assume tanks.
Since their press convention on the state capitol constructing, and since DiSibio joined the group, nevertheless, ACK RAT has rebranded themselves as ACK for Whales and so they have distanced themselves from Stevenson and ACOP.
“It seemed dangerous,” DiSibio defined. “They have been too political.”
Chalke, a retired bodily therapist from New Jersey who owns a residence on Nantucket, has additionally separated from ACK for Whales, although she has not backed away from opposing offshore wind. She usually seems at public occasions dressed up in a royal blue, polyester whale costume, holding an indication within the type of a Massachusetts license plate that claims “Save Me.” She even donned the costume when President Joe Biden, who holidays on Nantucket, handed via the island in his motorcade. In February, Chalke introduced she was operating for an open seat on the Choose Board.
ACK for Whales ultimately misplaced their lawsuit in opposition to BOEM within the decrease courts. They appealed twice, misplaced the appeals, and escalated the case to the US Supreme Court docket, which declined to listen to the argument two weeks earlier than Trump’s inauguration. In the meantime, DiSibio stated they’ve issued two notices of intent to sue federal businesses over New England Wind, one other deliberate offshore wind improvement off the coast of Nantucket. When Oliver spoke on the emergency Choose Board assembly, she seemed over at Møller and stated, “Mr. Møller, we’ve met in courtroom just a few occasions.” Although ACK for Whale’s lawsuits have to this point failed in authorized proceedings, that will now not be an impediment: Trump’s Inside Division just lately announced it could be reviewing wind initiatives which were sued by opponents to contemplate rescinding their permits.
I questioned how ACK for Whales may afford to file a number of high-profile lawsuits with out the monetary help of ACOP and the Ocean Setting Authorized Protection Fund, when, by DiSibio’s estimation, that they had a modest money circulate. To escalate their case to the US Supreme Court docket, for instance, they wanted to retain an lawyer with particular admission, a dear endeavor.
DiSibio defined that the attorneys they employed have been related via pals or agreed to work pro-bono. (Each attorneys she talked about by identify, Thomas Stavola and David Hubbard, have additionally represented different anti-offshore-wind nonprofits in unsuccessful lawsuits in opposition to offshore wind initiatives.) The one cash ACK for Whales accepted from Stevenson, DiSibio stated, was $5,000 to create a mailer that was in the end ineffective. (Stevenson has used mailers in other coastal communities to unfold disinformation about offshore wind.)
“We’re as grassroots because it will get,” she stated.
All the things DiSibio instructed me to research about offshore wind vitality — a community of darkish cash, partisan analysis, misinformation campaigns — I simply uncovered concerning the anti-offshore-wind motion. I imagined she would inform me this was by design; she had already expressed a skeptical relationship with journalists who, she stated, “take a nugget of data and spin it to suit a predetermined agenda.” Her arguments have been like peering right into a trick mirror, the place precise scientific proof was an phantasm and the absence of proof represented a window of risk. She recommended I wanted to transcend the scientific analysis, dig deeper into the stomach of the whale, to find the reality.
“If you wish to do the work to unravel the cash funding offshore wind, it could be a Pulitzer Prize [winning] e book,” DiSibio instructed me. She stated she was shocked to study in her fifties that, “the largest bag of cash will get you no matter you need.”
After I recommended she should have discovered concerning the energy of cash from her days as a dealer on Wall Avenue, she went silent for the primary time in our dialog.
“However that was good,” she stated. “And I used to be working with corporations, not people.”
In case you search “fishing Block Island wind farm” on Youtube, a trove of movies will seem by leisure and constitution boat fishermen close to the Block Island wind farm off the coast of Rhode Island. “Wow, they’re frickin’ large!” one video begins with an upward shot of the 5 600-foot generators. The Block Island wind farm has turn out to be a favorite spot for fishermen in Rhode Island. Some even advertise the generators as a singular characteristic of their fishing excursions.
“I’ve been instructed by many constitution boat fishermen that, if for some motive they’re not catching fish, they go to the Block Island wind farm,” stated Jennifer McCann, the director of US coastal packages on the College of Rhode Island (URI) and director of extension packages for Rhode Island Sea Grant.
In 2008, McCann’s workforce was tapped by state businesses to craft a regulatory doc known as a particular space administration plan, or SAMP, for offshore wind planning in Rhode Island. On the time, Cape Wind was nonetheless tied up in a authorized battle with Invoice Koch; if Block Island wind farm made it via the inevitable hurdles, it could be the first operational wind farm within the nation. Right now, the wind farm generates sufficient electrical energy to energy the whole lot of Block Island and 12,500 households on the mainland.
Picture by Equipment Noble
All offshore wind developments — whether or not a five-turbine farm constructed on state waters, as Block Island wind farm is, or a 62-turbine farm on federal waters like Winery Wind –— should bear a posh, multiyear allowing and approval course of that features, by regulation, a neighborhood outreach element.
With the SAMP course of, McCann’s workforce took a singular strategy to how they’d interact native residents, fishermen, marine companies, labor unions, and Native tribes. Somewhat than have regulators and builders lead the siting and mapping course of themselves — as BOEM and Winery Wind did — they have been introduced on as an impartial physique, supported by a tutorial establishment in URI, that had already been working with the folks of Rhode Island for many years. McCann figured it could profit everybody to harness the neighborhood’s data of the area, whereas additionally offering scientific options to their considerations. This wasn’t merely a artistic technique to persuade the general public to purchase into the undertaking, although buy-in was an vital profit. Members of McCann’s workforce have been Rhode Islanders, too, and due to this fact had a private stake in making certain the undertaking addressed neighborhood, scientific, and financial targets equally.
The SAMP course of lasted for about two years and included greater than 100 public conferences. They ordered catered dinner — rooster, heat soup, lasagna, cookies — to make sure attendees have been fed earlier than the typically tense discussions. McCann would eat her personal dinner at 4:30PM, earlier than everybody else arrived, as a result of she knew one in every of her greatest jobs was to get to know the attendees whereas they ate earlier than the formal assembly started at 6PM. They acquired greater than 2,000 responses from the general public, which they in flip used to conduct analysis and write coverage for the SAMP. McCann now teaches the adaptable and scalable model to practitioners all over the world.
“[The Rhode Island community] influenced what we talked about and the way we talked about it,” McCann stated. “Over time I’ve gone to [offshore wind] conferences within the Gulf of Maine, and in Massachusetts, and New York, and I really feel like I’m again in Rhode Island in 2008. Persons are asking the identical questions and having the identical considerations.”
That’s to not suggest Winery Wind and BOEM didn’t interact communities and native industries as a part of their planning course of. They did — outreach is a required element of allowing. In distinction to the SAMP course of, nevertheless, which occurred on the forefront of the undertaking, public engagement for Winery Wind occurred in tandem with main undertaking milestones. The primary 30-day remark interval was in early 2018 in preparation for BOEM to start work on the environmental impression assertion. BOEM and Winery Wind representatives held 5 conferences round Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Nantucket’s assembly was on April 18th, 2018. 5 extra conferences have been held in 2019 after the draft environmental impression assertion was revealed. In the summertime of 2020, when BOEM and Winery Wind launched the complement to the draft environmental impression assertion, they held a 45-day remark interval and a collection of 5 conferences over Zoom due to the pandemic lockdown. (No free meals have been supplied, after all.) In response to Winery Wind’s web site, the remark interval resulted in “over 29,000 folks [who submitted] feedback overwhelmingly in help of Winery Wind 1 and future offshore wind vitality improvement.”
Who’s to say how Rhode Island’s neighborhood would have reacted if a Block Island wind farm blade had scattered throughout their seashores. However Nantucketers I spoke with felt notably insulted by the truth that most didn’t know who the Winery Wind and GE Vernova executives have been after they swooped in to resolve the difficulty. In the course of the emergency city assembly, one govt talked about he had woken up in Europe that morning and rushed to Massachusetts to hitch them, presumably to convey how critically he took the difficulty. However the assertion had a chilling impact. One resident began her public remark with, “I didn’t get up in Europe at present. I awakened on a Nantucket lined in fiberglass.”
The SAMP course of engaged in an primarily Freirean pedagogy of neighborhood organizing, the place the neighborhood’s expertise and collective data was a foundational a part of enacting change. McCann believes the undertaking has been a hit largely due to the people-first strategy they took.
“Our humbleness is what makes us profitable. Despite the fact that I do know that isn’t a really humble factor to say.”
Nonetheless, tradition has shifted in important methods within the intervening a long time since 2008. I requested McCann if her perspective on neighborhood organizing had developed, contemplating many individuals now think about an Instagram Reel as equal to a scientific paper. Tutorial establishments have been being systematically defunded, making it tough for groups like McCann’s coastal program to remain afloat.
“Our conventional manner of doing public engagement and constructing belief shouldn’t be going to work anymore,” McCann stated. “We’ve attended many [offshore wind] occasions the place individuals are disrespectful. They arrive dressed as whales. They’re there to disrupt. Scientists are additionally feeling like nobody’s listening to them. The normal manner of speaking data is simply not working.”
One of many disruptors McCann was referencing (although not by identify) was, actually, ACK for Whales’ co-founder Mary Chalke, who appeared seated within the entrance row at a gathering in Little Compton, Rhode Island in her quintessential whale costume, holding her Massachusetts license plate “Save Me” signal.
McCann stated they have been exploring choices to succeed in folks aside from public conferences, which magnetize agitators who don’t intend to have interaction in significant dialog. One plan she talked about was beginning a podcast, a proposition I discovered disheartening in comparison with the bonding in-person rooster dinners she had described (although I did uncover McCann and her work via a podcast interview).
“And I really feel we’d like extra science,” she added.
I returned to Nantucket on a grey Saturday in mid-Could, practically a 12 months after the blade break and only a couple weeks shy of Memorial Day weekend, when the island’s inhabitants greater than quintuples for the summer time season. That Tuesday, residents would vote within the native election to fill two vacant seats on the Choose Board. Chalke had thrown her hat within the ring for one seat, whereas the incumbents, Brooke Mohr and Matt Payment, have been operating for reelection. Mohr, who was chair on the time of the blade break, appeared on the biggest danger of an upset. Selfmade bumper stickers that learn “No Mohr Generators” appeared on the backs of automobiles and vans circling across the island.
I questioned if I might encounter Chalke campaigning on the aspect of the highway in her notorious whale costume — a sight that might certainly be memorable for voters — however she opted for civilian garments as an alternative. And her slogan, “Put Chalke on the Board,” didn’t promote her cornerstone difficulty. Her marketing campaign web site contained little greater than a homepage with a hyperlink to donate.
In a video interview with a Boston actual property agent posted to her X account in December, Chalke gave a tour of the seaside close to her home to show the destruction Winery Wind had prompted. However the video undermined her personal level: Chalke couldn’t discover any particles and the generators weren’t seen on the horizon. “I’m not seeing [any debris],” she stated within the video because the ocean tide rolled in opposition to the sand. “However the actually regarding elements … they will’t be seen,” she reiterated. The true property agent commented on how attractive this seaside was, much more attractive than the seaside close to his own residence. Chalke laughed barely. “You’ll be able to’t see [the turbines] proper now as a result of it’s foggy. However they’re very seen. They really dominate the view.”
If the election had occurred ten months prior, I’ve little doubt the blade break would have been a extra salient subject for voters. However I received the sense that islanders have been already rising weary of the controversy. In September 2024, Martella, the CCO of GE Vernova, had joined a Choose Board assembly by Zoom to replace the neighborhood on the initial results from the environmental impression evaluation. The impartial findings confirmed that the ocean water met EPA requirements and was thought-about secure. He was talking to a virtually empty room. (Oliver, the ACK for Whales co-founder, was one of many few in attendance.) A city assembly had been scheduled the day previous to vote on short-term rental rules, one other hotly contested difficulty, which some surmised resulted in low turnout on the Choose Board assembly. Then in February, lightning struck the broken turbine, which reanimated debate round Winery Wind, however the occasion did not seize the general public’s consideration just like the blade break had.
Earlier than I arrived on island, I had organized to fulfill with a neighborhood constitution boat captain who was a central determine within the opposition final summer time. I hoped he may take me out on his boat to get a more in-depth take a look at the generators; as a result of they have been barely seen from the shore, I wished to witness their scale out on the water. However the day earlier than we have been supposed to fulfill, he canceled. It might take about 5 hours complete for us to journey backwards and forwards to the wind farm website, which was an costly journey. Plus, he stated he wasn’t as eager to be a number one voice within the wind farm debate anymore.
I requested some pals in the event that they knew of any fishermen who would need to meet me final minute. I used to be shortly related to Brooks Robbie, a good-looking, curly-haired industrial fisherman who works for Dan Pronk, the viewers member who confronted Møller on the emergency city assembly. They wouldn’t be capable to take me out to the wind farm, sadly, however they might meet within the afternoon after they returned from gathering conch traps.
Everybody I spoke with who knew Pronk, or who knew of him, instructed me three issues: he hates the wind farm; he loves Donald Trump; and he has a mood. We organized to fulfill at his boat slip after they received in, however after I arrived on the Anglers’ Membership the place that they had docked, Robbie knowledgeable me I had simply missed Pronk. He was out getting ropes and beer.
I stated I may wait and sat on the docks whereas Robbie scrubbed the deck. Pronk’s fishing boat, which he retains immaculately clear, was adorned with an American flag and a sticker that learn, “Go Blue… Burn Whale Oil.”
Quickly, a brief, muscular man with a gravelly voice walked onto the docks carrying a bucket of rope. “There’s Pronk,” one other fisherman introduced. I spotted I used to be nervous to fulfill him. After I had Googled Pronk hours earlier, I discovered a profile that recounted a convoluted story about how he had been arrested by environmental police for unlawful whale ivory smuggling. He stated he had discovered a whale cranium whereas fishing and drove round with it within the mattress of his truck.
I requested permission to hop aboard his boat from the docks. He joked that if I slipped and fell, he’d must take me for a trip out to sea. I laughed, possibly as a result of I apprehensive he is likely to be critical, but additionally as a result of I discovered his supply humorous. Pronk had a wry humorousness that jogged my memory of Massachusetts. He intermixed his diatribes about authorities rules and allow caps on lobster traps with quips like, “Fishing is the second oldest occupation on the planet, after prostitution.”
Lots of Pronk’s grievances with the wind farm have been tied up in his common distaste for presidency interference. His most direct criticism needed to do with a mud flat the place he as soon as recurrently fished for lobsters that he stated has been depleted since development on Winery Wind started. Although, he acknowledged that lobster fishing is inherently unpredictable, and that no lobster fisherman can return to the identical spot and assume it can ship once more. (The College of Massachusetts Dartmouth and the Massachusetts Lobstermen’s Affiliation are present process a multiyear survey to evaluate lobster populations close to Winery Wind.)
Robbie grumbled in settlement as Pronk decried foreign-owned renewable vitality corporations in American waters. At one level he even shouted out “drill, child, drill!” He gave the impression to be each razzing Pronk and inspiring him on the similar time. Earlier, whereas we have been ready for Pronk to return with the ropes, Robbie instructed me he’d seen a rise in mahi-mahi fish close to the generators, which thrive close to reef constructions. “It will possibly’t be as dangerous because the diesel gasoline we burn every single day,” he stated of the blade break, gesturing to the boats round us. Robbie didn’t specific any ambivalence concerning the generators in entrance of his boss, nevertheless. It was in his greatest curiosity to remain on Pronk’s good aspect.
After about an hour of hauling conch bins into the harbor, the place they’d grasp till it was time to promote them, Robbie and Pronk every popped open a bottle of Heineken. They didn’t at all times drink beer on the finish of the day, Pronk stated, however at present had been a very profitable day of conch fishing. Pronk then invited me and my accompanying photographer over to his home to indicate us the anti-wind-farm signal he had made out of a bit of blade particles.
Pronk’s spouse was mowing the entrance yard as we pulled up. His canine Rudder waited for a deal with by the freezer in his storage. “That is what we name the shake down,” Pronk stated whereas feeding his canine a frozen sardine. Within the nook of the storage, I noticed a Make America Nice Once more flag hanging on the wall. Pronk was clearly a fan of iconography — the bumper stickers on his boat, the flags, the anti-Winery Wind portray he designed on a sheet of fiberglass from the blade. These symbols and indicators all contributed to his fame as an anti-Huge Authorities lobsterman with a kink for provocation.
On the again of his truck have been much more bumper stickers. One learn, “Winery Wind Can Blow Me” and one other, “No Mohr Generators.”
“Was this you?” I requested, pointing to the Mohr sticker.
Pronk grinned. He was hopeful that Mohr would lose the election due to her dealing with of the blade break and the negotiations between Winery Wind and the city, particularly the contract the Choose Board signed in 2020 known as the “Good Neighbor Settlement.” He and others have been moreover annoyed with the defective plane detection lighting system that Winery Wind had but to repair, which meant the generators glowed with blinking pink lights at night time. From what I may inform, Mohr and Payment’s platforms had not modified from the final time they ran, whereas Chalke represented a radical, staunch opinion on a hot-button subject. Would that be sufficient for voters to oust an incumbent for a distinct face, one typically hidden behind a whale head?
The outcomes stated no. Mohr and Payment gained their reelections with over a thousand votes every. Chalke acquired 499 votes. Two months later, GE Vernova reached a settlement with the city of Nantucket for $10.5 million, which might assist create a fund to reimburse companies that suffered from the blade failure.
For renewable vitality opponents, nevertheless, the native election on Nantucket didn’t matter very a lot. The Trump administration was persevering with to roll again environmental rules, get rid of tax credit score incentives for renewable vitality initiatives, improve the tax on wind and photo voltaic particularly, and put an finish to new offshore wind leases. In comparison with photo voltaic and electrical autos, wind vitality adoption has struggled essentially the most: in 2020, the US was constructing about 14 gigawatts of wind vitality yearly, sufficient to energy about 10 million households. Right now, we’re constructing about half that quantity. Offshore wind builders with lively contracts have been quietly ready, crossing their fingers for a brand new administration in just a few years, relatively than danger a public battle with President Trump.
In the meantime, since BSEE lifted the suspension order in January, development on Winery Wind resumed. After I returned to the island once more in July, my flight handed over the increasing wind farm undertaking, which had reportedly reached 220 megawatts of its supposed 800 megawatt vitality manufacturing, with 17 generators sending energy to the grid. This was a big improve from solely 4 operational generators in Could, however far past their authentic completion objective of 2024. Building would seemingly proceed into 2026. From above, I may lastly sense the wind farm’s breadth, a grid of white pinwheels dotting a cerulean sea. Offshore wind opponents usually comment on how monumental every turbine is, however most islanders, together with myself, won’t ever expertise their dimension up shut. I’ve solely ever seen this hen’s-eye view of the Winery Wind generators, or as small apparitions on the horizon, sometimes showing from behind a hazy cloak.
Earlier than we left Pronk’s home, I requested if I may see the backyard in his yard, which was lined with a fence fabricated from outdated lobster traps to assist hold the deer out. Overhead, Pronk identified an uncommon sight: towering above his yard, behind a row of bushes and energy traces, was an 80-foot defunct wind turbine, constructed by a personal resident within the early Eighties. The resident recounted to the Inky in 2007 (again when Graziadei and I each labored there) that the one turbine on their property generated sufficient electrical energy to run their home. Any extra vitality the home didn’t use was offered to the native electrical utility firm. Across the similar time, a farm on the island put in a fleet of generators in response to the oil scarcity of the Seventies.
After 10 years, nevertheless, the resident’s turbine had mechanical issues and the personal firm that manufactured it, Aerolite, went bankrupt, so nobody has revitalized the as soon as helpful vitality supply. The decommissioned turbine nonetheless sits on the identical property practically 45 years later.
The irony was not misplaced on Pronk. He couldn’t stand seeing Winery Wind out on the water — a relentless reminder of a bloated authorities’s intrusion — but this construction didn’t trouble him. “It’s form of bizarre that that’s what I take a look at every single day. However I don’t thoughts it,” he stated, smirking on the blade-less turbine in opposition to a cloudy sky. I used to be shocked by his serene angle, contemplating he lives with the image of his ire proper in his yard, and he was a person who believed within the energy of an indication. Nevertheless it appeared that, over time, Pronk had arrived at his personal understanding of a defunct turbine’s environmental worth: “The red-tailed hawks and ospreys prefer to nest up there,” he stated.
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